tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post5759248544512668025..comments2023-10-25T12:02:23.216-04:00Comments on 3-PENNY PRINCESS: Lessons of a Shopaholic Part 3: Days 15-28 in Shopping Rehab3-Penny Princesshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-83917309912877392862009-11-03T13:14:01.515-05:002009-11-03T13:14:01.515-05:00I just discovered this blog and have spent an hour...I just discovered this blog and have spent an hour reading it. I was looking for a shopaholics support group in the DC area. Today is Day 1 of my Freedom from Superfluous Spending project. Made the decision w/my therapist yesterday. It is one of the major things that holds me hostage in life. I knew I wasn't alone, but it's great to be reading 3PP's honest anecdotes and the comments from her readers. Better than looking at Ebay, at least so far! Thanks, Pam in MDPam in MDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-80115706113253365392009-03-28T12:59:00.000-04:002009-03-28T12:59:00.000-04:00Great to hear from you! Sounds like you are moving...Great to hear from you! Sounds like you are moving in a positive direction! <BR/>I wanted to correct something um,er...I have mostly been the type that CANNOT see my long-term goals come to fruition due to always spending obsessively on immediate gratification items--mostly clothing, shoes and purses. So working on saving for long-term goals is VERY new to me and I am hopeful I can make it work. I know if I concentrate on paying off debt while putting something to savings for a wonderful trip or home renovation, not only will I have a goal but can keep my eye on the prize:) Hopefully using that prize each time I get the urge to buy something completely unnecessary. <BR/>Ya know..a want not a NEED;)<BR/><BR/>So glad want or need is working for you and H.A.L.T. discussed at Already Pretty is interesting too. <BR/><BR/>I am sure I am lonely/bored sitting in my office all day talking to no one and just mindlessly wander onto to online shopping...not ANY MORE! <BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work, the great attitude--it's wonderful to hear you are starting to understand you have more than enough already and that polyvore is helping you to recognize all the potential already in your closet! <BR/><BR/>I did want to mention that I was at the bookstore and flipped through that book you mentioned in the post (the one you have pictured-can't remember the exact title but pictured is the back of a girl.) Anyway--what an AMAZING book. I think it touches on ALL that I wish I had known many years ago when this began to be a problem for me. I know there are still some tools that I could use in there (I don't claim to know it all!) but wasn't sure I wanted to spend the $ on the book. I get all the concepts and I am on the right path. I may run to it should I start getting overwhelming urges to shop. I highly recommend this book and let me know if already got it. Have a great weekend!Becoming Frugalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-13997705160012614032009-03-27T11:05:00.000-04:002009-03-27T11:05:00.000-04:00Becoming Frugal - so sorry for the late response! ...Becoming Frugal - so sorry for the late response! I've been meaning to comment on your last post but work keeps getting in the way...<BR/><BR/>Thank you so much for being so brave and sharing all your heartwrenching personal stories! I can really feel your pain and regret for a lot of things. But I can also see that your attitude is wonderful! Your DH sounds amazing too! He seems to really understanding what drives you. Mine acts that way too sometimes. But it sounds like your family is really supportive too!<BR/><BR/>How eerie is it that you are also inspired to save by some of the same things: I always stopped shopping when I knew that we might go to Italy, and now I've stopped shopping partly to save money for home renovations. I was even writing about that in this week's diary! I guess we really have a lot in common in that we both need a strong and tangible goal in order to stay the course.<BR/><BR/>I have to say that this week has been a joy for me because I haven't really had strong urges to shop. First of all, I spend hours on Polyvore creating set after set with clothes I already have (which you'll also read about in my next post). The fact that I still have tons of outfits to create make me realize just how many great things my closet already contains. <BR/><BR/>Surprisingly, I didn't get as much joy out of that last J.Crew sweater that I had ordered last week. It was just like in "Confessions of a Shopahilic" where she debates and obsesses over going to the sample sale, then literally fights the other girl to get some items. But then after she gets the stuff and examines it, she realizes that it's all just a piece of fabric and not the answer to her needs.<BR/><BR/>I also feel better because, when I have gotten the urge to shop this week, I really was able to keep it under control. I kept reminding myself that, at this point, just about everything is a want rather than a need. This in turn made me happy, which in turn made me want to shop less.<BR/><BR/>When I'm happy, I don't need shopping. I want to do other things, accomplish other goals. I'm also spending more time with DH and kitty, which I love.<BR/><BR/>Thanks also for sending me the link to the "Already Pretty" blog. You're right, that is a great post! I will check out more of her blog.<BR/><BR/>Please return to read my final diary post after this week's adventures. I hope to end it on a really high note, and I hope everyone will be proud of my progress! But mostly, I hope I make a permanent change. Ultimately, the people I want to please the most are my family and myself. Let's keep praying for each other because I know it's working!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-7291274564494361662009-03-25T13:54:00.000-04:002009-03-25T13:54:00.000-04:00Let me introduce you to my blog friend Sal over at...Let me introduce you to my blog friend Sal over at: www.alreadypretty.com <BR/>She is also an amazing writer and covers some fun topics--she has a zest for life which is super fun, too:) I hope you will read today's post re: AA there is much food for thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-5785038655144199382009-03-25T12:16:00.000-04:002009-03-25T12:16:00.000-04:00Well-I get where your DH is coming from. Mine has ...Well-I get where your DH is coming from. Mine has dealt with this off and on forever. Has always supported/supports me. Tried not to enable me and definitely has enabled me without really knowing it. Knowing what I know as a compulsive spender, I would get down and dirty with my addicted spouse. If he would have come to me and asked me VERY DIRECT questions about our money, all the new stuff I had in the house and arriving at the house--I would have freaked, broken down and had to be held accountable. But he would just kinda nag here and there. Beg me at times to stop or make comments that I was spending too much money and how were we going to pay for our kid's college if I kept this up? <BR/><BR/>When he did nag, it made it difficult to find ANY balance because I started to feel I couldn't go shopping AT ALL-even when I DID need something. I heard his nagging--what did you buy? And me always saying--I had to return something so I exchanged it or this was such a DEAL! And him saying do you know how many $15 dollar deals add up to $100's very quickly? He's right--what a waste.<BR/><BR/>More of my story: I have been in debt as I mentioned. When I was spending way beyond my not-even-completed-with-college means (say $6K when I was 19). Meaning it is tough to get out of that hole when you aren't yet making the kind of money necessary to support a pricey shopping habit. When I completed college and my then boyfriend (now DH) knew we had something worth holding onto. He helped me out by offering to secure a consolidation loan with his car. I was adamant about paying off as quickly as I could, paying more than the minimum and keeping my good credit score in check (one thing that thank GOD I never messed with. I always have paid my bills on time and as much as I can pull together. Never just the minimum unless absolutely necessary when I was younger.) I had broken down and knew I needed help. With his offer to help consolidate, I also knew I wanted to help myself and realized how totally out of control it had gotten and that I couldn't do it alone. Not even the support of family or my dear boyfriend was gonna provide the tools to stay on track. I went to DA, I eventually paid off the loan, and things were great. I got my life back on track and then stopped going to DA. I never wanted this to happen again but it did and has on several occasions since then. BTW, as you mentioned, DA sounded like the wrong thing for me, too. When I first learned about it, I didn't consider myself someone who debted for debt's sake--like needed to be in debt but I didn't relate the two until I got there and heard other people's stories. I compulsively shopped and unfortunately always worked retail (which was a MAJOR source of my problem. Imagine being faced with new J Crew clothing coming in all the time and a major discount to boot-yikes!) DA gives the support of others that may be buying say..tremendous amounts of books and cannot stay out of the bookstore. Has to have every new copy of whatever type of book..they may not even be in debt but as mentioned in your article, it doesn't mean their shopping and compulsiveness isn't hindering their life. It means things are WAY out of balance. Like you have suggested, you are devoting FAR TOO much time on shopping, the coupons, the deals, the internet, shopping trips, fashion blogs, and your mind is merely FAR TOO PREOCCUPIED with SHOPPING! <BR/><BR/>Also, guess what? Just like AA, you are always recovering and never fully recovered. Sorry-that's just the way this is. There is something missing and you are seeking it all the time. Then you get your SH*T together and all is well for sometimes even years, only to relapse.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, my point here is that I was in debt, paid off my loan and was on track. At times I had actually gotten to the point where I realized I only wore like the same 2 black boots in winter (flat, heel) and the same brown shoes. I remember not buying any shoes for like a couple years as I found I didn't actually wear anything but the same ones (and this is someone that worked retail her whole younger life, studied fashion design in college, is always on top of the latest fashions etc.) So I am just saying that I never go out looking schlumpy and usually am the type that draws attention for looking pulled together and almost a little too nice for my kid's school event;) So back to the shoes..I didn't buy any for a LONG time and shoes were MY THING. I might add, I did buy some new clothing seasonally which is usually my trigger to binge. Often I would take things back to Marshalls that had tags and get store credit plus spend even more money-loved to shop Marshalls and get SO many great BARGAINS! But felt it wasn't that terrible (looking back--it was and is money out the window).<BR/><BR/>But then out of nowhere, I started getting back into it all BIG TIME and became obsessed again. I got my own secret CC that my DH didn't know about. I would only put a random $200-$500 on it here and there and pay it off in full. But then I re-discovered J Crew and the JCA and it was ALL DOWN HILL. I racked up some debt even after being able to pay off some major CC bills each month. Meaning paying upwords of $1k+/mo and finally topping out where I owed about $4K still and was now carrying a balance on my CC. Not something I was prone to do ever since completing DA. But it was now too high a balance to pay it off by selling on Ebay or with sneaky funds--it was too much money and the with the weight of it all, I broke down. Overwhelmed with what I had done, tired of lying to my husband about the thousands I was spending without his knowledge (mind you this was on top of the JC card he was paying off from our joint funds) I mean how ballsy is that of me? But guess what--it wasn't me. It was like an out of body-someone else. I felt almost manic. And guess what-I ended up very depressed about it all. <BR/><BR/>I work. I have always worked to support my love of THINGS! At times it was 3 jobs--that's when you know there's a REAL problem! And it was another point in my lfe where I read books about simplifying your life and realized that if I didn't buy so much crap-I didn't have to work near as hard! Obvious right? It seems like it and this theory worked for me for awhile. A lot like diet and exercise-I often eat too many calories and always feel I gotta workout, gotta workout. Well, at times I would just realize like shopping...I wouldn't feel it was so all-consuming that I workout today if I just simply ate less and made sure it was healthy food. Not obsessing because I ate this or that and MUST workout to off-set the calories. When all this is in balance-I eat to nourish my body and do not feel the need to HAVE to workout because I ate a whole batch of cookies. Off on a tangent but working out, eating and my weight are very intrinsicly tied to shopping. I tend to be up a few pounds when I am not shopping and can and do lose weight when I am compulsively shopping. I remember telling my husband that if I were uber-wealthy and could shop all the time, I would be so thin (I am not large by any means, a sz 4)but I mean-I don't even think about food when I am in that mode. Otherwise-food fills the void. Then I have to workout--etc. its a vicious cycle.<BR/><BR/>So I guess you can see that I am trying to fill a void with things, there is great unbalance in my life and I want to TAKE CHARGE! I am actually TIRED! I was physically/mentally DRAINED from shopping at J crew for months and dodging my husband, my kids that were seeing boxes all the time at the door and saying more J Crew? I mean what kind of message does that send? I felt secretive about anything I wore and still do. If someone asks me it is always me lying saying it was a Christmas gift or it's old when I know I just pulled the tags off even if I bought it in November. <BR/>Ugh--it's so clear to me again that I have spent enormous amounts of money (and time)that we could have actually been planning something special or saving for a certain thing. He would always say--well we could go to Italy if you would stop buying so much crap. I could never stop long enough because that immediate gratification always took the place of the the long range goal of visiting Italy or adding an outdoor room/stone porch to the back of our home. Ya know--just tough to look at the big picture but when you really get a grasp on it--it becomes all TOO CLEAR that things are WAY OFF KILTER. <BR/><BR/>I don't know if you are a fan of Oprah but she talks a lot about balance in life and her weight. I feel it goes hand-in-hand with shopping. I just read the last page of O magazine in her "what I know for sure" in the March issue and she touches on all of this balance and buying "things" it's a worthwhile read. Also, was flipping through channels last night and watched E channels "Keeping up with the Kardashians" the title is "I'd Rather Go Naked..or Shopping". Try to DVR or catch this where they pose an intervention with Kim as they realize she shops FAR too much. She would be the one described in your article as the type who has the money but drops 20K at a time in the stores on a routine basis. Doesn't matter if she has the money now. Could she EVER possibly wear any of that more than once if even one time? Does it make it right to buy many hundreds of thousands of dollars of clothing just because right now-you DO have the money? Imagine the changes in the world she could be making with that money--talk about the REAL fulfillment she could have. It means things are way out of balance for her. She's trying to buy something else and she just ain't getting it with clothes, shoes etc. <BR/>Well-this is one REALLY long post! But I hope this helps you and any others to understand this issue from another perspective, know they are not alone and certainly be supportive.<BR/>Have a great day--one day at a time!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-36527739326222903482009-03-24T15:09:00.000-04:002009-03-24T15:09:00.000-04:00Tough Love 2 - I meant it when I said that I am tr...Tough Love 2 - I meant it when I said that I am truly grateful for your comments and "tough love." It takes guts to say what you and Becoming Frugal/Tough Love 1 have said. I can sense the despair in your voices and the fact that you don't want me to end up in the awful situations that you mentioned. I don't want to either! <BR/><BR/>Everything you (and others) have said to me after the last 3 posts has struck a major chord in me. It has really affected the way that I'm thinking about my problems and how to resolve them. This has been emotional for me, and I am deeply touched that it has elicited strong emotions in others. I will have you to thank when I finally accomplish my goals! <BR/><BR/>Also, I am absolutely floored by my DH's comment! He did that without my knowledge. It brought tears to my eyes to read it. This is exactly the reason I want to become a better person - not because he doesn't love me the way I am, but because he deserves better!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-16752687568986403042009-03-24T13:34:00.000-04:002009-03-24T13:34:00.000-04:00You're right, I didn't read your posts carefully--...You're right, I didn't read your posts carefully--I skimmed them, and I evidently didn't get the humor. Only you know your story well, your motivations, and your truth. As Anon@9:39 said, your posts are illiciting strong emotions and opinions. I hope some of them are helpful, and that you don't feel too attacked (thumbs up to DH for his chivalrous post!) God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-33018700343377136852009-03-24T13:04:00.000-04:002009-03-24T13:04:00.000-04:003PP's DH here, just some background on my love's a...3PP's DH here, just some background on my love's and mine financial relationship. We keep our finances separate. Although I am aware of my wife's CC dept, which I could pay off, I would rather her learn to structure her life to fit her income. We are by no means leaving above our combined means, perhaps she is individually, but if she falls, which I would allow her to do; I will always help her get back up.<BR/>Personally I don't have any CCs and never had, I believe in never buying something with someone else’s money.<BR/>She is very open and honest as if you can her both the subconscious and the conscious sides of her brain.<BR/>She is much stronger then she acts and someday she will realize that.<BR/>With two type A’s in a relationship it is better to encourage without controlling, there is no reason that I should get personally angry at her, just express my disappointment in her lapse in judgment. Sometimes people forget that love is such a blessing to have that it is not always important to focus on the little things. That is until the little things become big things…I am always aware that it could get out of hand and that is why I keep a close eye on it.<BR/>Thanks<BR/>-3PP’s DHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-85432291814519934512009-03-24T13:02:00.000-04:002009-03-24T13:02:00.000-04:00I love looking through the Polyvore sets; it's so ...I love looking through the Polyvore sets; it's so helpful to see how people put together outfits. And I've learned so much from reading everyone's blogs. I'm in science/engineering and my artistic side is completely undeveloped. Combining colors and textures and making outfits look polished is a huge struggle for me. So I tend to stick with boring basic outfits. But I'm starting to move up the corporate ladder and need to put more effort into my wardrobe. <BR/><BR/>That's so nice of you to offer to take me shopping; unfortunately I'm a good 5 hours away from the DC area. I've thought about starting a blog to document my daily outfits (the good, bad, and ugly) -- it might help with facing up to my problem. Not sure I could handle the nasty anonymous people though. For now I'll just keep lurking and learning. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-20043254643799306322009-03-24T12:47:00.000-04:002009-03-24T12:47:00.000-04:00Tough Love 2 - you have a lot of excellent points!...Tough Love 2 - you have a lot of excellent points! I do live in an amazing city with so much to learn and enjoy! I used to be better about taking advantage of it more. Working on weekends, along with the domestic needs of running a household and taking care of family has unfortunately reduced the time I have to do these things. But one of my goals is to get back into the cultural swing of things and enjoy them again.<BR/><BR/>The cautionary tale of your 63-year-old colleague is also a big reality check. It's truly heartbreaking to see this happen to nice people. I too have a family friend who seems to fit this description eerily. I hope it's not the same person! The saddest thing about it to see someone reduced to those circumstances, especially at that age.<BR/><BR/>I am very fortunate in that I don't have a lot of debt (nothing that can't be paid off over a few months) and that I realized I was spinning out of control long before it became too late. I am careful about maintaining the household bills, keeping my credit score high, and paying off debts. I own my house in my name and usually pay for the mortgage, utilities, and groceries without my husband's contribution. I have also been adamant over the years about selling things on ebay when I've bought too much.<BR/><BR/>Which brings me to some of your comments. How carefully did you read my previous years' blog posts? I didn't buy two $1600 Burberry bags. I bought one for $900 and another for $600 later on ebay 2 years ago. And, I sold both one year later for $600 and $500. As for the Louis Vuitton, I had bought that 5 years ago $900, and I sold it for $700 2 years ago. In fact, I sold every single expensive handbag that I ever owned, including some vintage Gucci and Chanel bags that I had collected over several years.<BR/><BR/>Now, I buy Coach, Cole Haan, and Kate Spade bags at the outlet where they don't cost more than $200-250. The only Cole Haan shoes I buy are either from TJ MAxx, the outlet, or on clearance with a discount at the retail store. And I only buy Nike Air Cole Haan dress shoes because I'm on my feet a lot walking around in the city with clients. Every single time I buy one bag, I sell one. I sold many pairs of Cole Haan shoes recently. I also have been in the habit for the last several years of cleaning out my closet every 3 months and donating boxes full of stuff.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I did shop during my honeymoon 2.5 years ago. It was a conscious choice, as both of us had been working 2 jobs and saving so that we would have the cash to fully enjoy our month-long tour of Europe. We spent the money we had put aside specifically for the purpose of doing everything we wanted. We didn't go into debt, and I didn't shop much for a while afterwards.<BR/><BR/>The things I bought on my honeymoon consisted mostly of 2 small inexpensive Furla items, 1 inexpensive MaxMara purse, a small canvas Gucci purse (all the Italian purses cost me significantly less than they would here), and 1 couture quality trench coat that I'll wear for years to come, along with some small souvenirs and clothing items from Monsoon-type stores in London. I'm not saying I didn't buy a lot, but I'm saying that it was a conscious choice that we both worked a lot to save for.<BR/><BR/>About my Zales diamond post: I'm not sure how carefully you read it, but the entire point of that post was to poke fun at the fancy diamond stores where the same diamonds costs double or triple. I had endorsed Zales as a great place to get diamonds for less, especially since it was owned by the same company as Bailey Banks & Biddle. The only criticism (and it was only in jest) was that completely inappropriate work attire worn by the sales associate who helped me, though I said excellent things about her product knowledge. Furthermore, I have never wanted a new or bigger diamond ring. I have been completely in love with the one my husband gave me, and for that matter, I've always thought the current one was too big! My husband is always the one who talks about getting a bigger ring in the future. I always tell him that I would never trade it for another. Again, the only purpose of my bringing it up in that blog post was to mention that people talked to me about the concept and to liken their views on diamonds to cars that they could upgrade every few years.<BR/><BR/>In fact, if you go back and read my blog posts since 2006, you'll see that 90% of them were written with the primary objective of eliciting humor and entertaining the reader. If you got from that a snobbish attitude, I apologize, but it was never intended. Sometimes sarcasm and snarky humor can sounds like snobbism.<BR/><BR/>Please read my post about shopping at Target to see that I am not the least bit concerned where my clothing, shoes, and accessories come from. I also mentioned in this current post that I own now 18 pairs of Editor pants from Express. The fact is, I don't own one single item from a store from the likes of Neiman Marcus or Saks. I never shopped there. The only high-end items I ever used to purchase (and I certainly don't now) were nice handbags. And, a full 100% of these came from eBay for one-half to one-third their cost, which never exceeded $500 except for the 2 Burberry bags. I stopped buying couture bags a couple of years ago as I realized I didn't need them. While my friends would all agree that I dress nicely, look put-together, and use accessories well, no one would ever mistake me for a person who buys expensive clothes. Right now, 75% of my closet is from J.Crew, Ann Taylor/Loft, Limited, and Express, while the other 25% is from cheap stores like Target and Marshalls. <BR/><BR/>Not that it matters where I shop or how much the items cost for the purposes of identifying that I have a problem controlling my shopping. Like I wrote in this last post, a person can shop at thrift stores or drive all over town to hit all the sales and still rack up debt. That's why I recognized it and am in the process doing something about it. I don't want to end up divorced 3 times (or even once) and I want to save the relationships that I have harmed. I want to work toward a more important goal than having the best wardrobe ever. I want to value things other than material goods, and I also want to be fulfilled by more important things. I don't want to have unnecessary debt, and I am doing my best to pay it off with the intention of not adding any more to it.<BR/><BR/>I am extremely grateful for your time and care, and I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for my past behavior. But it offends me to be called a snob - I am many negative things, but a snob I am not. I am what I said: a compulsive shopper with bad habits that I need to break. Inasmuch as the advice and care is meant to help me reform my habits, I am grateful for it. Making judgment calls about what I used to purchase (and since sold) in the past is not going to help me pay off my debts and heal my relationships. <BR/><BR/>Again, I appreciate all the advice, love, and concern. I hope you continue to pray and look out for me as a make a more earnest effort to stop shopping and start living a more valuable life!:)3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-64263935778333406762009-03-24T11:39:00.000-04:002009-03-24T11:39:00.000-04:00anon @ 9:43 - thank you for your love and good wis...anon @ 9:43 - thank you for your love and good wishes! You're absolutely right - I don't need that extra J.Crew sweater (or any other item) to be fulfilled. That was a really bad week for me and I have since thought about my "needs vs. wants" at Becoming Frugal's suggestion. That's why this is a journey... Sometimes there will be bumps and detours before I get to the next destination.:)<BR/><BR/>As far as attending the next JCA outing, I'm afraid I can't not be there. I am the person who is planning it and organizing all the details from start to finish, from the store opening logistics to transportation to the brunch venue to seating arrangements. I've been planning it for a month. I'm definitely going to be there!<BR/><BR/>The only question is whether or not I will buy something. As of yesterday, that wasn't even in question as my entire reward for starting a shopping fast in February was to be able to shop at the upcoming event. But now, as I've read some of the comments and thought about it more, I'm not so sure if buying something is the right thing to do. I will need to ponder it more so that I'm completely at peace with my decision.<BR/><BR/>With regard to buying my friend a few pieces, that was my husband's money and decision. This girl is one of his oldest friends and she is getting married and changing careers right now. We've been trying to help her change her image for years, and this was an early wedding present to her. My husband does not regret his decision to spend a little bit of money to help her, and we would be extremely upset if she were even to suggest taking back those gifts. In her case, the purchases were needs, not wants, and her image is very important right now to her career growth and confidence. We are thrilled that she is happier as a result of the experience.<BR/><BR/>But I do see where you're coming from, and I know that it's a place of concern and care! I appreciate that greatly! I still have many strides to make. It has only been about 4 weeks, and I do feel that, emotionally, I have learned a lot already. I will heed all of your advice as I continue to improve. Thank you again for caring!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-38869074312690027992009-03-24T11:16:00.000-04:002009-03-24T11:16:00.000-04:00Becoming Frugal (Original Tough Love) - wow, you r...Becoming Frugal (Original Tough Love) - wow, you really gave me a lot to think about! I had to sleep on it to really consider everything you said. My initial reaction yesterday was, "That's definitely not going to happen! There is absolutely now way I'm going to give up shopping completely -- just temporarily!" I also said to myself, "I am most definitely going to buy at least one thing this weekend since this event has been the major inducement to my keeping a shopping fast in the first place."<BR/><BR/>But then I thought about what you said about the "needs vs. wants". And I can't argue that 95% of the things I'm buying at this point are all wants, because, you're right, I have pretty much everything I need already. <BR/><BR/>One thing that I am starting to do now is earnestly "Shop my Closet." I know FFM, Slastena, and others have written a lot about this. But I think the idea is just starting to catch on with me. I have vowed to make a major effort in breathing new life into everything I already have, because the truth is, I have a highly enviable wardrobe! Others would be thrilled to have one-half of what I have (even one-third). This makes me want to find more creative ways to make what I already have new and exciting.<BR/><BR/>You are also right about not going "returning" or paying my bill at the store anymore. I know that it gets me into trouble almost every time (returning more so than paying because, while paying is a reality check, returning makes me believe that I have new money to spend).<BR/><BR/>I love your idea of rewarding myself when I pay off a credit card! Maybe it does make more sense to reward myself for doing something proactive (taking an action, accomplishing something tangible) than for just not doing something (not shopping). I will think about what type of reward will motivate me strongly. <BR/><BR/>I've also been thinking about some larger goals to keep in mind so that I have an incentive to save money instead of just spending my "disposable" income. I think we used to do that in our household but got off track. I will talk to my husband about it and see what we both want to work toward.<BR/><BR/>Probably the hardest thing for me to agree with is the comparison of shopping to a drug. Right now, I am still comparing shopping to food. I think part of the reason for my thinking this way is because I don't think of shopping as inherently bad for you (like heroin or cocaine). I think of the abuse of shopping as bad, much like a dieter who abuses food by bingeing on food, using food as an emotional crutch, and being dishonest to eat more. I think of the effects of comulsive and uncontrolled shopping as bad. <BR/><BR/>But since it's impossible for a person to never shop, I still feel that it is a behavior that I need to learn to control rather than give up forever. A person could conceivably give up alcohol, but a person cannot give up buying things. I mean, I need to go to the grocery store today to buy food, and I need to go to the department store later this week (either in person or online) and buy gifts for upcoming weddings and baby showers. The reality of not having access to a store is not a plausible one. What is plausible is mastering the emotional triggers that will help control my urges to buy things I don't need with money I don't have.<BR/><BR/>Most importantly, let's remember that I spent many years of my adult life as a moderate, responsible shopper. It is possible, and I can become that person again. The 4 biggest problems for me are 1) credit cards, 2) discounts and sales, 3) shopping without a purpose, and 4) not having a savings goal. <BR/><BR/>Without a doubt, I have vowed to pay off my credit cards as well as spend as little time as possible shopping (and only for things we need rather than things I covet). I still need to think about a lot of things, including my values and relationships. It's not a linnear journey. It may have detours and bumps, but I will get there as you have.<BR/><BR/>I am grateful for all the time and care you have offered me, and your prayers! I will pray for you also!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-65592473835864555222009-03-24T10:34:00.000-04:002009-03-24T10:34:00.000-04:00My apologies to you and to the original "tough lov...My apologies to you and to the original "tough love"--I did not read all of the comments on your previous post, and did not know the name was taken . . . that said, it is perhaps significant that two of your readers chose the same name and had a similar reaction to your posts.<BR/><BR/>When I went back to read the original "tough love"'s post, I also skimmed through your blog since the beginning, which I hadn't done before. <BR/><BR/>Sweetheart, you have a serious problem. Please forgive me . . . but your honeymoon was essentially a glorified shopping trip! TWO of the same Burberry bags in different colors at $1,000 a pop? On top of your Louis Vuitton, Furla, and goodness knows what else? And then your glee at "upgrading" your 2+ carat (size mentioned more than once) diamong ring, tempered by your embarrassment at shopping at Zales? <BR/><BR/>Darling, you get affirmation and a sense of self-worth from your purchases. Is there anyone in your life who can talk straight to you about this, and make you see the light? A parent, a sister, an aunt, a friend? Your darling--and I do mean this--husband seems a bit bewildered by your habit, and I don't think you are going to get the support you need online, from shoppers like yourself.<BR/><BR/>You are a snob, pure and simple, but most certainly a charming, kind one . . . why don't you put your energies into developing your soul and spirit, rather than bankrupting it? You live in one of the most culturally rich cities in the nation . . . do you visit the National Gallery? How about taking a class at one of the world-famous universities there? A cooking course? Why not make a list of all the great books you've never read, and focus your energies there?<BR/><BR/>You obviously have a lot of mental energy that can be positively channeled. Improve yourself on the inside, if you feel you need improvement! As for needing rewards, you could certainly put the money you spend on shopping (once you are out of debt) towards more rewarding things in the long term . . . travel, your home, etc.<BR/><BR/>I have a 63-year-old shopaholic colleague who serves as a cautionary tale in my life. She is stunningly beautiful and is always wearing clothes that make her look like a million bucks, and cost just about as much. People are always telling her what great taste she has, and how great she looks, and some people admire her for this. She basks in the glow of these compliments. What people don't know is that she has been married three times (and has been sadly single now for 15+ years), she has declared bankruptcy once, and in the 10 years I have known her, she has sold all of her possessions, along with an apartment and a house, twice, in order to fuel her shopping habit. She is now living in a student slum apartment and has drained her retirement account . . . but boy, she looks great doing it!<BR/><BR/>I am keeping you in my thoughts--you seem like such a nice person, and you deserve every success and happiness. Be strong!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-61351402920108170422009-03-24T09:43:00.000-04:002009-03-24T09:43:00.000-04:00If you have credit card debt, you do not have $125...If you have credit card debt, you do not have $125 to go shopping with the JCAs. That should go towards paying off your credit card! If you have debt, you cannot afford to buy an outfit for a friend!! If she was really a friend, and if she reads this blog, she'll return your money and watch you as you send it off to JC for a payment.<BR/><BR/>You cannot go to the JCA outing. And if any of the DC JCAs care about you, they will not let you attend. The SAs should not take your money - like a bartender refusing to sell to an alcoholic. <BR/><BR/>This is all said with love and good wishes for you. You are a beautiful smart person who does not need the latest JC sweater to be fulfilled. I really hope that you are able to get a handle on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-3644938414949969642009-03-23T19:28:00.000-04:002009-03-23T19:28:00.000-04:00Oh and ..."I have no intention of giving up shoppi...Oh and ...<BR/>"I have no intention of giving up shopping completely -- that would be like giving up your favorite food or giving up wine. I am trying to learn to do it in such a way that I control it instead of it controlling me."<BR/>That sounds just like someone in denial. To some major extent, you MUST give up shopping. JUST like an alcoholic does not drink and has to stay out of the bars so that they are not enticed to drink. You obviously have a problem, so you have to stop shopping--completely. Or you will not get it under control. A drink here and there doesn't work for an alcoholic. <BR/>That's why debting is so difficult to manage. We must use money in life and we must go into stores. There would be a time when we actually NEEDED let's say a new pair of jeans because ALL of ours did not fit or were actually WORN OUT (yes, hard to imagine isn't it?)and we had to hit the stores but do so using our CONSCIOUS mind. Not walking around unconscious buying whatever we think we covet so much. <BR/>It's a tough deal-no doubt about it. I feel your pain:(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-51532203999091901572009-03-23T19:14:00.000-04:002009-03-23T19:14:00.000-04:003PP just want to clarify that someone else used th...3PP just want to clarify that someone else used the handle "tough love" (at 1:08pm) and that was not "me" ;) I will switch my name to.."becoming frugal".<BR/><BR/>I love what you have posted today and really all the posts that reveal your valuable research. You do know a lot about the problem at hand and like myself, you just have to COMMIT to action. <BR/><BR/>I do agree with the other "tough love" that you really should stop shopping. With each new object of desire, ask yourself, is this a "need" or a "want"? If it is a want (aren't they all?)then forget about it, step away, put it down, run!! Whatever...but don't DO IT! I bet you have something very similar or close enough. I know without even seeing your closet that you don't NEED anything;) Let's see..you have it all and could get dressed everyday for a year without adding ANYTHING new. Am I right? No? ;0)<BR/><BR/>Honestly, I think you need to start by stepping WAY away from it all. Don't make plans to shop (meet the JCA's and do not buy anything-just have dinner and relish in their purchases knowing you were strong enough to resist! Put that cash you would have spent toward your debt and feel GREAT about yourself!) Make plans to go for a walk with your friend(s) and talk. Have coffee and chat, have a drink with DH and some good conversation. You have to get off the merry-go-round. STOP looking. STOP going online, STOP going to stores. Stop obsessing--I have wasted enormous amounts of time away from my family and kids (and work for that matter) while snagging the best deals online, returning gobs of things I should not have been purchasing etc. BTW, I know I could not walk into my J Crew if they had read all this about me..doesn't that bother you? I am very ashamed about my bad habits but that is me and I am astounded and revel in your candor. I think it is a wonderful way to truly get the help from blogland. Laying it out there. Also, you are SMART! I agree with others--a great writer as well. <BR/><BR/>More advice: No more returning things (get it ALL done and out of the way), no more going to the store to pay your bill, no more online "lurking" J Crew --NONE! <BR/><BR/>The part of the other "tough loves" comments that I can agree with is--how bad do you want this? I had to hit bottom and want it bad--like I do now. Then I read the blog "You Look Fabulous" (love it by the way) and there was a post about one of the fashion mag editors giving up shopping for 1 year (maybe Anna Wintour of Vogue-I cannot remember.) Anyway, I made up my mind to not shop for a year. I am 2 months into it and I do not covet all these things anymore. Honestly-I am so excited about the creativity that this has thrust upon me. And so excited and jazzed about watching my debt go down and savings go up. Clothing, shoes and purses etc. are a serious waste of my kids college $, retirement, vacations, home improvements etc. My DH and I used to just do these things (vacation etc.) with the family and carry a little bit of CC debt (then there was my own hidden CC being run up to the hilt on clothing etc.)but due to not having our finances/budget in line, we really had lost control. I didnt pay the bills so I had NO IDEA how much it costs us just to pay for the BASICS let alone all the fun and fluff. Crazy--it makes me feel even more NUTS now. How could I burn that $--most of the stuff I have is fab and just sits in my closet. Ebay sucks right now so I cannot see selling right now either.<BR/>Anyway, now I don't want that anymore--I am taking control and it feels GOOD:) <BR/><BR/>Another thought/Rewards:<BR/>Think about people who have just enough clothing to perhaps wear the same basic pieces everyday except for changing up their accessories. Make your imagination & ceativity work for you. Use accessories to change up your look. <BR/>Set up a plan--when you get the next CC paid off, reward yourself by planning a trip to say Marshalls/TJ Maxx and stick to the list--do not veer no matter what--use all of your will. Since you have now analyzed your entire closet and used polyvore etc to make outfits, determining the perfect scarf, jewelry needed to fill in or make something exciting of your outfits. See what kind of games you can play with yourself to reward behavior. <BR/>I pray you catch the savings bug and I ask you pray that I stay on the right path;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-64628257103804832812009-03-23T16:20:00.000-04:002009-03-23T16:20:00.000-04:00Tough Love - thank you for constantly looking out ...Tough Love - thank you for constantly looking out for me! I am truly blessed to have the care and prayers of you and others who are staying with me! You're absolutely right that my posts often contradict each other and, sometimes, I too lose my purpose. I am most definitely not looking for enabling, nor am I looking for people to tell me that what I've been doing is all great. I definitely want to hear suggestions and be held accountable.<BR/><BR/>One thing to keep in mind though is that this has been a journey and a learning experience for me - and I'm still learning. I'm learning from my mistakes, and I'm learning about myself. I learned that the most important thing is to just stay on track, even if I veer off. I don't want to just give up altogether when I make mistakes in judgement. Rather, I want to learn (as you suggested) why I made those mistakes and how they can be prevented in the future.<BR/><BR/>Probably the biggest lesson so far is to recognize that it's not the shopping itself that's a problem: it's the control that shopping has over me (both financial and mental). For this reason, I need to mentally tell myself when, where, and how much I'm going to shop rather than just submitting to unplanned temptations at random occasions. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but I need to feel in control of the situation. <BR/><BR/>For me, shopping is like food, and being on a fast is like being on a diet: Neither food nor shopping is the enemy. It's not realistic (or healthy) to stop eating completely. It's important to begin eating/shopping in a controlled, moderate, and deliberate way that is healthy. It's also important to continue to learn the habits that contribute to healthy eating/shopping. Most importantly, it's vital to stay the course even when I have failures or fall off the wagon. <BR/><BR/>Now that I've observed some of my motivations, I've learned that I am extremely reward-driven. But not by idealistic rewards or rewards that are too far away. I need rewards that are timely, tangible, and worthwhile, or I tend to lose hope. Right now, a lot of rewards that used to keep me on track are no longer feasible to expect, and some of the reason I've lost my way is due to the lack of good, tangible rewards.<BR/><BR/>You may think it's crazy to go to the shopping event this weekend when I'm trying to reform my compulsive shopping, and I definitely see that! But remember this: the strongest motivation I've had since I went on my shopping fast in February was to stop shopping for a while so I could shop guilt-free at this weekend's event. It's the event I've been waiting for and the reason I'm trying to stay on the wagon as long as I am.<BR/><BR/>This reward will serve several purposes: it will test me in my new resolve to not use credit cards. It will also test me in sticking to a definite amount of spending, which will be decided beforehand and brought with me. It will give me something to look forward to for the next 6 days so that I don't feel tempted to shop beforehand. And, it will give me a great experience to savor in my memories (and hopefully in my closet) after the weekend, which <BR/>will give me added motivation to not shop until the next "reward" time. The $125-150 (which I think will be my set budget for Sunday) will go far in ensuring that I don't shop any more before or after for a while.<BR/><BR/>You're also right that I have to focus first and foremost on paying off my debt. I am already significantly down from where I started in February, and I will continue to make advances in this department over the next few months. Also, not using credit cards will help to keep those balances down a lot!:) <BR/><BR/>As for my personal relationships, yes, I'm also concerned about those. To be honest about that, my relationships have suffered about 40% due to money and 60% due to the time that I spend shopping. My husband can forgive some financial bingeing (which I obviously need to get under control and learn better habits), and I can even return or sell more of my stuff if I still binge occasionally. <BR/><BR/>But what I can never, ever make up is all the hours and hours of time I've spent shopping or obsessing over shopping. It's not fair to constantly abandon my family (and sometimes friends) because I'm obsessed about getting some deals or driving all over the world to try and find some obscure "perfect" item. My husband resents this aspect of my shopping habit.<BR/><BR/>What I currently do is spend days and weeks looking for sales, discounts, or items to trade. I also spend oodles of time on retail sites or blogs that talk about clothes (not that I don't appreciate all the great reviews!), which takes a huge bite out of the time I could spend with others. <BR/><BR/>I hate to say this, but I felt better when I just went into a store once or twice a month in years past and just paid full price for something on the spot. Then I got exactly what I wanted, I brought it home, and I didn't worry about what else to buy again for a while. More importantly, I didn't obsess about whether I had bought the item I really needed or just something that was on sale, and I didn't drive all around town in search of more items. I think it's because I had less time to shop to begin with , so the time I had was spend more wisely. <BR/><BR/>I think too that shopping with a lot of discounts and sales is a lot more harmful for me than buying things at full price. Even though this is also counterintuitive financially, I'm learning that I'm extremely succeptible to losing control when I perceive myself to be getting a lot of great "deals."<BR/><BR/>Like I said, I'm still learning. But I'm finding that writing about this helps me to understand things better. And, I really treasure all the comments and advice that comes from you and others here! Please continue to support me!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-35049096431852766032009-03-23T15:29:00.000-04:002009-03-23T15:29:00.000-04:00FFM - thank you for your prayers and inspirational...FFM - thank you for your prayers and inspirational messages on your blog!<BR/><BR/>Thank you also for commending my writing! I am honored to receive this compliment from you! My hubby actually convinced me to start this blog almost 3 years ago (wow!) and always said that I should write. Now I think he's regretting it because my strategy is exactly what you suggest: write instead of shop. Now, instead of losing me constantly to the stores, he loses me to my blog.:) I have to be careful not to spend too much time on it because it's easy to get sucked in and lose track of time.<BR/><BR/>But I definitely enjoy it and I think it's therapeutic for me. I hope others get some enjoyment from it too!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-46772031313817541762009-03-23T13:08:00.000-04:002009-03-23T13:08:00.000-04:00I'm very confused by your posts and your responses...I'm very confused by your posts and your responses. Do you think you have a problem or not? I discovered your blog through that of another JCA, and the good hearts of you and other JCAs really shine through and touch me--so believe me, my comments are not meant to be mean, but I'm wondering about your sincerity and your honesty, with us and with yourself. From my perspective you do have a problem (and we all have our problems, surely!) but I'm not sure the extent to which you are facing up to it. If you are carrying credit card debt, why are you still spending money? If you are on a shopping ban because you are a shopoholic, why are you planning to reward yourself with shopping next weekend? Are you really concerned about your relationship with your spouse? Again, I don't want to be mean, and your husband sounds beyond wonderful . . . but I know from within my own family that a spouse's uncontrollable spending/cc debt can lead to divorce, as you yourself suggest.<BR/><BR/>Yes, the deals during this economic downturn have enticed many of us to spend more than we ususally do, or should. But your problem seems to run deeper than this. You seem like a smart cookie. If you are serious about stopping, you might want to get professional help to get to the root of the problem--or do some soul-searching yourself. It seems to me that in posting your story, you may be looking for enabling rather than solutions. Good luck to you and god bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-24827864744997938822009-03-23T12:08:00.000-04:002009-03-23T12:08:00.000-04:00anon @ 10:38 - thanks for visiting! It's interesti...anon @ 10:38 - thanks for visiting! It's interesting to hear the other perspective as well. I hope the JCA community (and also, our Polyvore sets) have inspired you a little.:) I know that the other girls here inspire me a lot daily, both with their creative ideas and with their encouragement.<BR/><BR/>No, I wasn't always this bad. I think I go through phases where I spend out of control. I'm usually pretty neurotic about monitoring my expenses, balancing my checkbook, and organizing my bills. The problem for me is the abuse of credit cards. I've learned that they just create too much temptation for me. When I stick to a realistic budget and pay cash, I'm much more likely to succeed in spending responsibly. <BR/><BR/>Discounts and sale are also a huge temptation for me. The past year has seen sales on an unprecedented level, especially at stores that don't have a history of discounting. This makes it hard for me to resist shopping. Again, the sales themselves aren't bad, just my inability to control myself.<BR/><BR/>I'm learning a lot as I go. I have no intention of giving up shopping completely -- that would be like giving up your favorite food or giving up wine. I am trying to learn to do it in such a way that I control it instead of it controlling me.<BR/><BR/>On a different note, do you happen to live in the Washington, D.C. area or do you plan to visit? If so, we'll take you shopping and put together some solid outfits for you.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for reading!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-26330419016089722932009-03-23T12:04:00.000-04:002009-03-23T12:04:00.000-04:00Hi 3-Penny Princess! Thank you for your honesty an...Hi 3-Penny Princess! Thank you for your honesty and willingness to share. I will also continue to pray for you...you can succeed and overcome!<BR/><BR/>Btw, have you considered taking up writing? You are very good at it, and it would take up a lot of the time normally spent on obsessing over shopping. Just a thought...Melissa@AllThingsSimplifiedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076948687302539385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-83317938783824105292009-03-23T11:48:00.000-04:002009-03-23T11:48:00.000-04:00GingerSnap - You've been such a good cheerleader f...GingerSnap - You've been such a good cheerleader for me! Thank you! I do have an amazing husband who not only understands my bad habits but loves me anyway. He'd probably love me even if I never improved, but knowing that makes me want to improve.<BR/><BR/>I'll try to be more positive and encourage myself rather than reflecting too much on mistakes. It does motivate me more. Thanks for continuing to follow my story!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-34918162074910515282009-03-23T11:43:00.000-04:002009-03-23T11:43:00.000-04:00HeidiG - I'm really grateful for your thoughts and...HeidiG - I'm really grateful for your thoughts and prayers! I know they're working on me! I really appreciate your continued encouragement and I'm glad that, somehow, my experience helps others too. It really is easier to get better with people cheering me on!3-Penny Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579349047540517734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-7656743073601076372009-03-23T10:38:00.000-04:002009-03-23T10:38:00.000-04:00Wow, this is very enlightening, I had no idea what...Wow, this is very enlightening, I had no idea what went on in the mind of a compulsive shopper. I have the exact opposite problem you do -- I don't shop/spend enough, and my embarrassingly shabby wardrobe shows it. I have been reading the JCA blogs to try to get inspiration to buy more clothes and improve my wardrobe. What are the roots of your spending? Have you been like this since childhood?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30665744.post-2021093990563807312009-03-22T21:24:00.000-04:002009-03-22T21:24:00.000-04:003-Penny, you really are so honest and wonderful to...3-Penny, you really are so honest and wonderful to share your feelings with us. Please do not beat yourself up over falling off the wagon (even if it was a hard fall). No one is perfect and you are making great strides. Plus, it sounds like you have a fabulous and supportive husband to rely on.GingerSnaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01584148743556541760noreply@blogger.com